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| 10-10-03 Ken Evans USDC Transcript NOTE FROM KEN EVANS: In my opinion, the following transcript is a relatively poor record of the conversations that actually took place in court on August 22, 2003. That’s probably why I wasn’t allowed to take my own tape recorder into the hearing. Of course, most of the substance is present, but the stenographer’s short hand was transcribed by a computer and the transcript contains many broken sentences and FAR TOO MANY incomplete statements (These are indicated by the following - - ). During the hearing, I had a prepared written statement from which I sometimes read. I have found multiple incidences where what I read is not what is found in the transcript and also where things that were said were indicated on the transcript to have been said by someone else. I have filed a Notice with the court of twenty-two corrections that I would like to see made to this transcript. However, because of the recent negative ruling, they will likely never be made. If you are interested, you can read my proposed corrections at the following page: http://www.reasons2vote.com/addendumbriefsummaryjudgment.html I also find some irony in the fact that the stenographer’s last name is Rothschild. It may be entirely coincidental that he has the same last name as the banking family that has links to the origin of the Federal Reserve, but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least, if it wasn’t.
ENJOY …
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1 1
2
3 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
4 FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
5 - - - - - - - - -
6 KEN EVANS : CIVIL ACTION 7 : Plaintiff: 8 : vs. : 9 : THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA : 10 : Defendant : 11
12 Philadelphia, PA 13 August 22, 2003
14
15 BEFORE: HON. CHARLES R. WEINER, SJ
16
17 HEARING 18
19 P R E S E N T:
20 For the Plaintiff: 21 KEN EVANS, PRO SE 22
23
24
25
2 1 For the Defendant: 2
3
4 U.S. Department of Justice BY: JONATHAN DWYER CARROLL, ESQ. 5 Tax Division PO Box 227 6 Washington, DC 20044
7 Attorney for Defendant
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 Sidney S. Rothschild 20 Official Court Reporters U.S. COURT – Room 1234 21 601 Market Street Philadelphia, PA 19106 22 (215) 627-0184
23
24 Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, 25 transcript produced by computer.
3 1 (Proceedings commenced at 11 a.m)
2 THE COURT: Good morning. Please be
3 seated.
4 Mr. Evans, I would be glad to hear you.
5 Come up, please.
6 MR. EVANS: Good morning, your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
8 MR. EVANS: Your Honor, there are a few
9 items I think deserve the Court’s attention before
10 the argument for summary judgment.
11 During your preliminary conference, some
12 attorney for the defendant was to file a notice of
13 appearance.
14 I believe you ordered paperwork, to the
15 best of my knowledge and that still hasn’t been
16 done.
17 THE COURT: All right.
18 MR. EVANS: Also, simultaneously with
19 filing my motion for summary judgment, I submitted a
20 list of 10 interrogatories which I included in my
21 certificate of service. And, to date, those
22 interrogatories have also not yet been responded to.
23 THE COURT: I’ll see he answers the
24 interrogatories. We will know the reason why.
25 Let me ask you a question, while
4
1 questioning each other with interrogatories, the
2 rest of it, did you ever pay any money due to the
3 Court of Appeals?
4 MR. EVANS: Your Honor, to the best of my
5 knowledge, that no money was due the Court of
6 Appeals.
7 THE COURT: They didn’t fine you $4,000.
8 MR. EVANS: I did not receive an order
9 signed by a Judge. I received a notice signed by a
10 clerk. To the best of my knowledge, a clerk can’t
11 order me to do anything.
12 THE COURT: In other words, if the judge
13 ordered, you would pay it?
14 MR. EVANS: I would have to say, I would
15 assume so.
16 THE COURT: Basically most messages are
17 sent from the courts through the clerks. If you
18 received a judgment in this case, the judge would
19 sign the judgment, but probably the clerk would send
20 you a notice saying that judgment is due.
21 MR. EVANS: I don’t believe I ever received
22 a judgment signed by a judge.
23 THE COURT: What did you receive from the
24 Court of Appeals?
25 MR. EVANS: I can check.
5
1 THE COURT: Pardon me?
2 MR. EVANS: I can check. I believe I
3 received a notice.
4 THE COURT: What did the notice say?
5 MR. EVANS: Off the top of my head, I
6 remember receiving some sort of a notice.
7 THE COURT: Was the amount $4,000.
8 MR. EVANS: That amount was listed, yes.
9 THE COURT: How do you think they came to
10 that? In other words, how do you think the clerk
11 came to that?
12 MR. EVANS: Your Honor, I don’t know.
13 THE COURT: Okay. All right, sir.
14 I think you ought to look into it. They
15 will probably take action against you, if you don’t
16 pay it.
17 Proceed, please.
18 MR. EVANS: My pleasure.
19 Along the lines of the interrogatories, I
20 would like to file a motion for an order to compel a
21 response to the interrogatories.
22 THE COURT: I’ll take care of that today.
23 You can leave that here. Put it up on the desk.
24 Tell me why you are here this morning.
25 MR. EVANS: I filed a motion for summary
6
1 judgment, in relation to monies, two bonds that are
2 currently being held by the defendant.
3 I would like to state up front, I’m more
4 than willing and happy to pay every penny of tax I’m
5 liable for, according to what the law actually says.
6 THE COURT: Why don’t you think you shouldn’t
7 pay taxes?
8 MR. EVANS: I do not think that. I think I
9 should pay everything the law says I owe.
10 THE COURT: Why do you think the law says
11 you shouldn’t?
12 MR. EVANS: I don’t believe that, I don’t
13 believe the law - -
14 THE COURT: Tell me the law you are relying
15 upon?
16 MR. EVANS: On multiple statutes and
17 regulations of Title 26.
18 THE COURT: Tell me one or two, so your
19 opponent can answer that.
20 MR. EVANS: Gladly. The imposition of
21 federal income taxes is found in Section 1 of the
22 regulations, as I am sure the Court is aware, are
23 often much more specific as to what is owed.
24 Section 1 reads: There is hereby imposed a
25 tax on the taxable income of individuals. Taxable
7
1 income being a legal definition defined elsewhere in
2 the law. The regulations under Section 1 state quite
3 clearly that the taxes on taxable income and
4 - -
5 THE COURT: What do you consider taxable
6 income?
7 MR. EVANS: I consider taxable income,
8 income derived from those types of commerce under
9 which the federal government has jurisdiction to
10 regulate. Those types of commerce - -
11 THE COURT: What kind of work do you do,
12 sir?
13 MR. EVANS: I’m a pharmaceutical sales rep.
14 THE COURT: What?
15 MR. EVANS: A pharmaceutical sale rep.
16 THE COURT: Does the government have
17 jurisdiction over that group?
18 MR. EVANS: Over the technical commerce I
19 engage in, no.
20 THE COURT: Why?
21 MR. EVANS: The Constitution doesn’t
22 delegate that authority.
23 THE COURT: You don’t think they have
24 jurisdiction over pharmaceuticals?
25 MR. EVANS: Not jurisdiction over me
8
1 working for a living.
2 THE COURT: Explain that to me.
3 MR. EVANS: As the law in Title 26 spells
4 out, specifically those types of commerce, those are
5 found in parts two through five of subsection N.
6 THE COURT: What exempts you from that?
7 MR. EVANS: The United States
8 Constitution. It is not - -
9 THE COURT: What does the Constitution say,
10 to relieve you from paying taxes?
11 MR. EVANS: The Constitution delegates
12 specific authority to regulate specific activities.
13 The activity in which I engage is not one of the
14 specific activities.
15 The 10th Amendment specifically
16 delegated to the United States - -
17 THE COURT: Does the government have
18 jurisdiction over interstate commerce?
19 MR. EVANS: Yes.
20 THE COURT: The company you work for, what
21 company is that?
22 MR. EVANS: Aventis Pharmaceuticals.
23 THE COURT: Are they engaged in the
24 pharmaceutical business?
25 MR. EVANS: The federal government has
9
1 jurisdiction to regulate what my company does, not
2 what I do.
3 THE COURT: How did you get your job?
4 MR. EVANS: They hired me.
5 THE COURT: If they hired you, aren’t you
6 an agent of that company?
7 MR. EVANS: I work for that company. I
8 don’t know if agent has a specific meaning.
9 THE COURT: Let’s just make it easy for
10 me. I don’t understand things that easily.
11 MR. EVANS: I’m trying to make it as easy
12 as possible.
13 THE COURT: When you were hired, suppose
14 you visit me - - you visit doctors?
15 MR. EVANS: Yes.
16 THE COURT: If you visit me, as a doctor,
17 how do you represent yourself? Who would you say
18 you are?
19 MR. EVANS: I am a representative for
20 Aventis Pharmaceuticals.
21 THE COURT: You act as their agent, don’t
22 you?
23 MR. EVANS: Again, I don’t know if agent
24 has a specific legal definition. I act as a sales
25
10
1 representative.
2 THE COURT: You are in a position to take
3 their orders; if a doctor says I want to buy so and
4 so medication.
5 MR. EVANS: I don’t sell medication to the
6 doctors. I simply try to change their prescribing
7 habits. There is no actual transaction that goes on
8 between us.
9 THE COURT: You try to convince them?
10 MR. EVANS: To sell more of what the
11 company sells.
12 THE COURT: When you represent the company,
13 the product, you are their agent, don’t you speak
14 for the company?
15 MR. EVANS: I do speak for the company,
16 yes.
17 THE COURT: You say, I sell a superior
18 product?
19 MR. EVANS: That is correct.
20 THE COURT: You are using X, Y, Z, and if
21 you buy my product, it is superior to the one you
22 are using now, isn’t that correct?
23 MR. EVANS: That is correct.
24 THE COURT: Your success or lack of success
25 depends on what you do, right?
11
1 MR. EVANS: That is correct.
2 THE COURT: In other words, if you don’t
3 convince me, I don’t buy any product, that goes on
4 for quite a longtime, that company won’t keep you,
5 is that correct?
6 MR. EVANS: That is correct.
7 THE COURT: When you are going there, you
8 are anxious to be successful, to make sure that they
9 buy that product, isn’t that so?
10 MR. EVANS: Yes, very much so.
11 THE COURT: While you are doing that, what
12 activity are you engaged in?
13 MR. EVANS: I’m engaged in working for a
14 living.
15 THE COURT: Right. So, in other words, you
16 expect that you will be paid as a result of the work
17 that you do?
18 MR. EVANS: That is correct.
19 The service that I provide for the company
20 is not the same service that the company provides
21 for the doctor.
22 THE COURT: We will come to that in a
23 minute.
24 If you are successful, they get a lot of
25 orders from the people that you visit. The company
12
1 is anxious to keep you, right?
2 MR. EVANS: Yes.
3 THE COURT: They are anxious to pay you for
4 that service?
5 MR. EVANS: I was sales rep of the year
6 last year.
7 THE COURT: If you don’t do a good job, or
8 they don’t pay you enough, you will leave them?
9 MR. EVANS: Yes, that’s right. The beauty
10 of the free market.
11 THE COURT: When you are doing that, what
12 are you doing, you are not engaging in some
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